From owner-chemistry@ccl.net Wed Dec 21 02:26:01 2005 From: "Igor Griva igriva[*]gmu.edu" To: CCL Subject: CCL: Sybyl with Fedora Message-Id: <-30372-051220221042-26378-IJU5tTo3Ph5S+qd0mwNyPw|,|server.ccl.net> X-Original-From: "Igor Griva" Sent to CCL by: "Igor Griva" [igriva,+,gmu.edu] I am wondering if anyone successfuilly installed Sybyl 7.1 under Fedora core 4 Linux? I tried but got empty the directory responsible for licensing. Is there anything I should be aware of? I would appreciate your feedback. Thank you. Igor Griva. igriva:-:gmu.edu From owner-chemistry@ccl.net Wed Dec 21 03:01:00 2005 From: "Qui Chun Lee s4553711===yahoo.com.tw" To: CCL Subject: CCL:G: Some problem with running Linda7.1 in gaussian03 Message-Id: <-30373-051220224510-17035-oFUubBI8b8HYIDholY4Ciw_-_server.ccl.net> X-Original-From: "Qui Chun Lee" Sent to CCL by: "Qui Chun Lee" [s4553711.*_*.yahoo.com.tw] I have a cluster and want to use Linda running parallel working. Now I test a input file test.gjf as below: ============ %mem=15MW %NProcLinda=2 %chk=water.chk HF/6-31g(d,p) OPT opt 0 1 H O 1 r1 H 2 r1 1 a1 r1=1.0 a1=104.5 ============ and running in the command %g03l < test.gjf , some problem appear. So I set -vv to show more information , and the result as below .I guess there are some setting not correct but I don't know where to adjust setting well.My another thinking is not to run work on cluster1(my master) ,can it be worked and how to do this? Is there any suggest to solve this problem ? Thanks a lot. PS.cluster1.private.net(192.168.0.101) <=== my master in cluster node1.private.net(192.168.0.102) <=== node2.private.net(192.168.0.103) <===another 2 slave nodes OS:Fedora Core3 Log files: setenv GAUSS_EXEDIR /pub/g03/linda-exe:/pub/g03/bsd:/pub/g03/private:/pub/g03 echo /pub/g03/linda-exe:/pub/g03/bsd:/pub/g03/private:/pub/g03 /pub/g03/linda-exe:/pub/g03/bsd:/pub/g03/private:/pub/g03 g03 Entering Gaussian System, Link 0=g03 Initial command: /pub/g03/l1.exe /home/user/g03test/Gau-6343.inp -scrdir=/home/user/g03test/ Entering Link 1 = /pub/g03/l1.exe PID= 6344. . . . . . ntsnet: using global map file "/pub/g03/linda7.1/intel-linux2.4/../common/lib/tsnet.map" ntsnet: using user map file "/home/user/.tsnet.map" ntsnet: checking for /pub/g03/linda-exe/l302.exel ntsnet: using executable file /pub/g03/linda-exe/l302.exel ntsnet: maxlicense is 1000000 ******************************************** appl config file: /pub/g03/linda-exe/tsnet.config-l302_exel user config file: /home/user/.tsnet.config global config file: /pub/g03/linda7.1/intel-linux2.4/../common/lib/tsnet.config user map file: /home/user/.tsnet.map global map file: /pub/g03/linda7.1/intel-linux2.4/../common/lib/tsnet.map local node: cluster1 remote nodes: node1 node2 nodelist: node1 node2 nodefile: tsnet.nodes minwait: 600 maxwait: 600 workerwait: 900 masterload: 1.000000 workerload: 1.000000 fallbackload: 0.990000 maxprocspernode: 1 delay: 0 maxnodes: Number of available nodes minworkers: 1 maxworkers: 1 loadperiod: 5 high: True suffix: True verbose: True veryverbose: True distribute: False cleanup: True getload: False translate: True useglobalconfig: True useglobalmap: True application name: l302.exel application lookup name: l302_exel local executable directory: /pub/g03/linda-exe distribution directory: /pub/g03/linda7.1/intel-linux2.4/ maxlicense: 1000000 ******************************************** ntsnet: trying to schedule 1 worker ntsnet: scheduled a total of 1 worker ******************************************** node name: cluster1 official node name: cluster1.private.net config lookup name: cluster1 executable directory: /pub/g03/linda-exe executable name: l302.exel working directory: /home/user/g03test debugger: linda rsh argument: rsh linda rcp argument: user: adjusted load: 1.000000 threshold: 20.000000 speedfactor: 1.000000 available: True nice: False master: True processes scheduled: 1 (including master process) maximum processes: 1 ******************************************** node name: node1 official node name: node1.private.net config lookup name: node1 executable directory: /pub/g03/linda-exe executable name: l302.exel working directory: /home/user/g03test debugger: linda rsh argument: rsh linda rcp argument: user: adjusted load: 1.000000 threshold: 20.000000 speedfactor: 1.000000 available: True nice: False master: False processes scheduled: 1 maximum processes: 1 ******************************************** node name: node2 official node name: node2.private.net config lookup name: node2 executable directory: /pub/g03/linda-exe executable name: l302.exel working directory: /home/user/g03test debugger: linda rsh argument: rsh linda rcp argument: user: adjusted load: 0.000000 threshold: 20.000000 speedfactor: 1.000000 available: True nice: False master: False processes scheduled: 0 maximum processes: 1 ******************************************** ntsnet: starting master process on cluster1.private.net /pub/g03/linda7.1/intel-linux2.4/bin/linda_sh /pub/g03/linda-exe/l302.exel 15728640 water.chk 1 /home/user/g03test/Gau-6344.int 0 /home/user/g03test/Gau-6344.rwf 0 /home/user/g03test/Gau-6344.d2e 0 /home/user/g03test/Gau-6344.scr 0 /home/user/g03test/Gau-6343.inp 0 junk.out 0 +LARGS 3 0 -kainterval 1 -master 8994 -tsnetport 35352 -maxworkers 1 -minworkers 1 -minwait 600 -maxwait 600 -nodename cluster1.private.net -kaon ntsnet: starting 1 worker on node1.private.net /pub/g03/linda7.1/intel-linux2.4/bin/linda_rsh node1.private.net -r rsh /pub/g03/linda-exe/l302.exel 15728640 water.chk 1 /home/user/g03test/Gau-6344.int 0 /home/user/g03test/Gau-6344.rwf 0 /home/user/g03test/Gau-6344.d2e 0 /home/user/g03test/Gau-6344.scr 0 /home/user/g03test/Gau-6343.inp 0 junk.out 0 +LARGS 3 1 -maxworkers 1 -chdir /home/user/g03test -worker cluster1.private.net:8994 -workerwait 900 -tsnetref 1 -nodename node1.private.net ntsnet: exec'ing /pub/g03/linda7.1/intel-linux2.4/bin/LindaLauncher One-electron integrals computed using PRISM. eval server 0 on cluster1.private.net has dropped it's connection. subprocess pid = 6348 has exited. status = 0x000b, id = 0, state = 17. command was /pub/g03/linda7.1/intel-linux2.4/bin/linda_sh /pub/g03/linda-exe/l302.exel 15728640 water.chk 1 /home/user/g03test/Gau-6344.int 0 /home/user/g03test/Gau-6344.rwf 0 /home/user/g03test/Gau-6344.d2e 0 /home/user/g03test/Gau-6344.scr 0 /home/user/g03test/Gau-6343.inp 0 junk.out 0 +LARGS 1 cluster1.private.net 192.168.0.101 42605 1 1 . died after signing in successfully From owner-chemistry@ccl.net Wed Dec 21 08:14:00 2005 From: "John McKelvey jmmckel!=!attglobal.net" To: CCL Subject: CCL: YAEHMOP executable for Windows Message-Id: <-30374-051221071125-24015-qs7eJe5ZisnjNn415rTyoA[a]server.ccl.net> X-Original-From: John McKelvey Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 07:07:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Sent to CCL by: John McKelvey [jmmckel[a]attglobal.net] Folks, Does anyone have a Windows executable of YAEHMOP that could be shared? I'm trying to help a CCLer get it going on his XP machine. Many thanks! John McKelvey From owner-chemistry@ccl.net Wed Dec 21 09:30:00 2005 From: "Julia Subbotina angel _ htf.ustu.ru" To: CCL Subject: CCL: Freq error in Gaussian Message-Id: <-30375-051221073851-25231-WAUbu9zgoAufRqDIP+UCOg_-_server.ccl.net> X-Original-From: "Julia Subbotina" Sent to CCL by: "Julia Subbotina" [angel||htf.ustu.ru] Dear CCL users, We have faced the problem in the freqency job for the big system. The file was ended with the following error: Integral accuracy reduced to 1.0D-05 until final iterations. EnCoef did 1 forward-backward iterations EnCoef did 3 forward-backward iterations Initial convergence to 1.0D-05 achieved. Increase integral accuracy. SCF Done: E(RB+HF-LYP) = -2612.85204621 A.U. after 20 cycles Convg = 0.3590D-08 -V/T = 2.0097 S**2 = 0.0000 Range of M.O.s used for correlation: 1 1330 NBasis= 1330 NAE= 231 NBE= 231 NFC= 0 NFV= 0 NROrb= 1330 NOA= 231 NOB= 231 NVA= 1099 NVB= 1099 **** Warning!!: The smallest alpha delta epsilon is 0.73565753D-01 writwa What kind of reason for this problem can be? My best regards (and wishes for X-mas and New Year!) Julia From owner-chemistry@ccl.net Wed Dec 21 10:05:00 2005 From: "subha sridhar meenakshisubha _ gmail.com" To: CCL Subject: CCL: autodock Message-Id: <-30376-051221065916-22750-TJjCMeq95SrxTDE3rSAUpg]^[server.ccl.net> X-Original-From: subha sridhar Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_14375_18935399.1135163086221" Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 16:34:46 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 Sent to CCL by: subha sridhar [meenakshisubha]|[gmail.com] ------=_Part_14375_18935399.1135163086221 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Dear Sir, We are attempting to dock a known ligand to a receptor (modelled in modeller 8v1) using autodock 3.0. first we docked using an existing pdb complex from which the receptor and the ligand were separated. However while docking the modelled receptor with the same ligand extracted > from pdb , the ligand loaded at a far distance and the resulting docked conformation of the ligand also did not show any binding to the receptor. what could be the possible reason? Thanking you. regards modelling team. meenakshisubha/a\gmail.com ------=_Part_14375_18935399.1135163086221 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
Dear Sir,
           &nbs= p;  We are attempting to dock a known ligand to a receptor (modelled i= n modeller 8v1) using autodock 3.0. first we docked using an = ; existing pdb complex from which the receptor and the ligand were separate= d.
However while docking the modelled receptor with the same ligand = extracted from pdb , the ligand loaded at a far distance and the resul= ting docked conformation of the ligand also did not show any binding t= o the receptor.
what could be the possible reason?
 
Thanking you.
 
regards
modelling team.
 
------=_Part_14375_18935399.1135163086221-- From owner-chemistry@ccl.net Wed Dec 21 10:40:00 2005 From: "Grzegorz Bakalarski grzesb++biogeo.uw.edu.pl" To: CCL Subject: CCL:G: Some problem with running Linda7.1 in gaussian03 Message-Id: <-30377-051221095249-30505-JEk3xVKgMexNHA5XLp5Mzw : server.ccl.net> X-Original-From: Grzegorz Bakalarski Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 15:52:43 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 Sent to CCL by: Grzegorz Bakalarski [grzesb_+_biogeo.uw.edu.pl] Hi, Are you sure it is Linda related? Can you run g03 without linda on your Fedora Core OS? In not look for summary I've just sent to CCL Maybe this could help??? GB On Wed, Dec 21, 2005 at 03:16:08AM -0500, Qui Chun Lee s4553711===yahoo.com.tw wrote: > Sent to CCL by: "Qui Chun Lee" [s4553711. _ .yahoo.com.tw] > I have a cluster and want to use Linda running parallel working. > Now I test a input file test.gjf as below: > ============ > %mem=15MW > %NProcLinda=2 > %chk=water.chk > HF/6-31g(d,p) OPT > > opt > > 0 1 > H > O 1 r1 > H 2 r1 1 a1 > > r1=1.0 > a1=104.5 > ============ > and running in the command %g03l < test.gjf , some problem appear. > So I set -vv to show more information , and the result as below .I guess > there are some setting not correct but I don't know where to adjust setting well.My another thinking is not to run work on cluster1(my master) ,can it > be worked and how to do this? Is there any suggest to solve this problem ? Thanks a lot. > > PS.cluster1.private.net(192.168.0.101) <=== my master in cluster > node1.private.net(192.168.0.102) <=== > node2.private.net(192.168.0.103) <===another 2 slave nodes > OS:Fedora Core3 > > > Log files: > > setenv GAUSS_EXEDIR /pub/g03/linda-exe:/pub/g03/bsd:/pub/g03/private:/pub/g03 > echo /pub/g03/linda-exe:/pub/g03/bsd:/pub/g03/private:/pub/g03 > /pub/g03/linda-exe:/pub/g03/bsd:/pub/g03/private:/pub/g03 > g03 > Entering Gaussian System, Link 0=g03 > Initial command: > /pub/g03/l1.exe /home/user/g03test/Gau-6343.inp -scrdir=/home/user/g03test/ > Entering Link 1 = /pub/g03/l1.exe PID= 6344. From owner-chemistry@ccl.net Wed Dec 21 11:15:00 2005 From: "Grzegorz Bakalarski grzesb|*|biogeo.uw.edu.pl" To: CCL Subject: CCL:G: SUMMARY :Fedora Core 3 or 4 and Gaussian - exec problem Message-Id: <-30378-051221094839-29933-GEcRoDcxk3esp/mdQRMMMQ::server.ccl.net> X-Original-From: Grzegorz Bakalarski Content-Disposition: inline Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 15:48:18 +0100 Mime-Version: 1.0 Sent to CCL by: Grzegorz Bakalarski [grzesb!^!biogeo.uw.edu.pl] Hi, I send this message in order to confirm that solution given by Dr. William Polik (see below) really works!. After recompiling with #define NO_SBRK in mdutil.c, I can run g03 on my FC3 & FC4 machines. Thanks a lot! GB On Sun, Dec 18, 2005 at 09:22:15PM -0500, William F. Polik polik__hope.edu wrote: > Sent to CCL by: "William F. Polik" [polik~~hope.edu] > At 05:55 PM 12/16/2005, you wrote: > >Erroneous write during file extend. write 1896 instead of 4096 > >Probably out of disk space. > > This error occurs when g98 or g03 runs on Fedora Core 3 and higher > due to a change in the way memory is allocated by the c library and > kernel. Briefly, gaussian is requesting memory with the sbrk() > function, which not longer allocates memory contiguously. You must > tell gaussian to not use sbrk(), but instead to use malloc(). > > The fix is to add the following line near the top of mdutil.c and recompile: > #define NO_SBRK > > For details and other additional important tips on compiling g03 on FC, see > http://forums.fedoraforum.org/archive/index.php/t-1895.html > > Will Polik > > ================================ > Dr. William F. Polik > Hofma Professor of Chemistry > > Department of Chemistry > Hope College > 35 East 12th Street > Holland, MI 49422-9000 > USA > > polik\a/hope.edu > http://www.chem.hope.edu/~polik > tel: (616) 395-7639 > fax: (616) 395-7118 > ================================ From owner-chemistry@ccl.net Wed Dec 21 11:49:00 2005 From: "Gilles Marcou gilles.marcou+/-pharma.u-strasbg.fr" To: CCL Subject: CCL: autodock Message-Id: <-30379-051221112208-13050-bQC89+PH2nIWTI8lIGH4ag*server.ccl.net> X-Original-From: Gilles Marcou Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 17:30:46 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Sent to CCL by: Gilles Marcou [gilles.marcou- -pharma.u-strasbg.fr] Hi, I understood you constructed an homology model from a PDB entry in which the ligand of interest, or a very close one, is docked to a closely related protein. > We are attempting to dock a known ligand to a receptor > (modelled in modeller 8v1) using autodock 3.0. first we docked using an Depending on how you did your homology model, the cavity modeled can become a bit tighter so that docking experiments will fail. If the cavity of the model is yet enough similar to the template one, you can try to reduce van der waals weight or to make it softer. In fact you can also dock the ligand by hand. Once it is done, you should try to make a bit of MM study of the complex so that the worse clashes will relax and good interactions could be optimized. You will then have a recpetor suitable for docking. > existing pdb complex from which the receptor and the ligand were separated. > However while docking the modelled receptor with the same ligand extracted > from pdb , the ligand loaded at a far distance and the resulting docked > conformation of the ligand also did not show any binding to the receptor. > what could be the possible reason? Also, PDB are not perfect. Predicitvity of your experiment depends tightly of the protonation state, the orientation of hydrogens, choice of alternate locations for residues, water molecules, correct description of co-factors and local stresses that can be artefacts. Here again, if you can afford it, you should begin with some MM studies (carfull atom typing, pKa calculations, minimization, conformational search/molecular dynamics, etc...). Ciao, -- Gilles Marcou Université Louis Pasteur de Strasbourg Faculté de Pharmacie Laboratoire de Pharmacochimie de la Communication Cellulaire, UMR7081 74, Route du Rhin, BP24 67401 Illkirch tel.:(0033)(0)3.90.24.42.21 eMail: marcou#,#pharma.u-strasbg.fr From owner-chemistry@ccl.net Wed Dec 21 13:40:00 2005 From: "janl##speakeasy.net" To: CCL Subject: CCL:G: I wish you Happy Holidays and Great 2006 from CCL Admin Message-Id: <-30380-051221131612-26993-bpIXV2T4DnZqxEt+U50tGw-,-server.ccl.net> X-Original-From: janl..speakeasy.net Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 18:16:05 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Sent to CCL by: janl%x%speakeasy.net Dear CCL subscribers... First, the traditional motifs of the Holiday as they are "Made in USA", where this coming day of the National Holiday is being nicknamed: "The Day When the Holiday Infant Was Born"... Of course, every time I send this I add few language errors. Please send me the corrections and additions, and I will eventually try to make trees as high as Babel Tower, though I am sure I will add few new errors, so the process can continue indefinitely, like patching Windoz. Happy Season for all of you and the best in the coming Year. While I am sure that many mail filters will reject this message as spam (Spamassassin will add a high penalty for "unpronounceable words" or "gibberish" and my typos will add up on top of it), but some of you will get it. It will also be dully searchable in the CCL archives on: http://www.ccl.net/htdig (login: ccl Password: search) This is my Holiday Present for you (call it a "Gold Coin", or the "Food for the Poor", if you wish, since "rich we are not"). A few of you who read the overgrown and fat bottom of each CCL message may have noticed, and it seems stable at this moment. Whatever and wherever you celebrate around this time, it has few things in common: Peace, Joy, Family, Home and Hope. Take notice... Get some rest. Celebrate Yourself (You have to like yourself, before you can like other people...). All other things can wait... Use it or loose it before Global Warming will force us underground... More comments follow under the trees though you may safely skip them. Just a natural need for an aging fellow to talk to himself... Have a Wonderful Time and a Great New Year. Jan Labanowski, the CCL unmoderator. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ + X*X X.*.X X*(*)*X X_ 2006 X "BOAS FESTAS" "JOYEUX NOEL" \ / * "VESELE VANOCE" --O-- XXX "MELE KALIKIMAKE" / \ "HOME" "NODLAG SONA DHUIT" "PEACE." "BLWYDDYN NEWYDD DDA" "BON NADAL." "GOD__JUL" "BOLDOG UJ EVET" "BUON--ANNO" \ / "CHANUKAH SAMEACH" \ / "FELIZ**NATAL" --O-- "DOSIEGO!" --O-- "FELIZ..NAVIDAD." / \ "HAPPY HANUKKAH" / \ "KALA CHRISTOUGENA" "PARI ARTSAGOURT" "VROLIJK KERSTFEEST" "KELLEMES UNNEPEKET" "FROEHLICHE WEIHNACHTEN" "NAYA VARSH SHUBH HO" "BUON NATALE-GODT NYTAR" "ATHBHLIAIN FAOI MHAISE "HUAN YING SHENG TAN CHIEH" "IYI YILLAR-HYVAEAE LOMAA "WESOLYCH SWIAT-SRETAN BOZIC" \ / "NA ZDOROVE" "MOADIM LESIMHA-LINKSMU KALEDU" --O-- "MERRY CHRISTMAS" "HAUSKAA JOULDA-AID SAID MOUBARK| / \ "FELICHAN JARFINON" "'N PRETTIG KERSTMIS" O "O*SHUB NAYA BARAS*O" "ONNELLISTA UUTTA VUOTTA" (*) ! "INPAKARAMAANA VIDUMURAI "Z ROZHDESTVOM KHRYSTOVYM" >+< "STASTNY NOVY ROK-CHEERS* "NADOLIG LLAWEN-GOTT NYTTSAR" ! "CHING CHI SHEN TAN-o_o_o_ "CRACIUN FERICIT-GOJAN KRISTNASKON" *** **!! "S NOVYM GODOM-FELIZ ANO NUEVO" .-'-. mmmmmm !!!! "GLEDILEG JOL-NOELINIZ KUTLU OLSUM" .-' .-. '-.! ! xxxx "EEN GELUKKIG NIEUWJAAR-SRETAN BOSIC" .-' .-' '-. '-.! . "KRIHSTLINDJA GEZUAR-KALA CHRISTOUGENA" .-' '-. '-. "SELAMAT HARI NATAL - LAIMINGU NAUJU METU"' '-. '-. "SARBATORI FERICITE-BUON ANNO" ! ___________ !-..!- "ZORIONEKO GABON-HRISTOS SE RODI" ! !__o_!__!__! ! "BOLDOG KARACSONNY- VESELE VANOCE" ! !_ooo!__[a]__! ! "MERRY CHRISTMAS**JOY**HAPPY NEW YEAR" !ooooo__#__! ! (\_/)-=)) "ROOMSAID JOULU PUHI -KUNG HO SHENG TEN" . ! =('.')=// "FELICES PASUAS-EIN GLUCKICHES NEUEJAHR*.-.-' -.._________! ( ~~~ )/ "PRIECIGUS ZIEMAS SVETKUS SARBATORI VESLLE" '-.-''-.. `w---w` "BONNE ANNEE-BLWYDDYN NEWYDD DDA*FELIZ NATAL" '-.... SHENORAVOR SOORP TSENOONT,SHENORAVOR NOR DARI" EID MUBARAK -o- MALIGAYANG PASKO -o- GEZEELLIGE" KERSTMIS -|- CHRISTUJUMNA RUKSHUMMA -|- PIVDLUANA" JODLUME UKIOTARME-LO ~|~ HAUOLI MAKAHIKI HOU ~|~ " CHUC MUNG NGAY TROI SINH - CHUC MUNG NAM MOI--*(O)*" HAPPY KWANZAA ~*~ NODLAIG MHAITH CHUGNOT*X*X*(*)*X*X" XXXXXX XXXXXX XXXXXX ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ For those of you with nothing better to do I will add few comments about CCL kinky ways in the past year and some of my motivations and observations (who knows what my fingers will do with the keyboards beside spelling and grammar errors). Some of you are probably annoyed that the list is run as a for-profit Limited Liability Company. The truth is that I had to resign my previous job and I had a choice: either to send a polite note: "Thank you for participating", or try to run it from my basement. Of course, I could ask "someone" to give me some IP address on some Campus, sign a ton of legal forms or commit to a lot of things, but I decided not too. The reason is that I do not want to cause trouble for anyone and for myself. In past few years, in my past two jobs, I had started to get a sense what is the problem. And the problems are basically in the three categories: "image", "support", and "legal". The examples given below are not real, and they were not hinted of spelled like this, but for the sake of straight talk, I will trivialize some points. The examples of "image" questions are: "it needs to be great, since we cannot support crap", and "what if someone posts porn on the list -- we will look like jerks". Of course, given resources, I could make the CCL really good, but then someone could have asked: "Don't you have better things to do?", and even worse, I could look like one of these slick corporate pages. Of course, the main improvement that is needed is a sensible, logical organization of the site. On one hand, I could ask for your help. There are tools and stuff to do this. But then I will either control the process and look for compromises between various ideas, or to let it go. It is an old "chicken and egg" problem from the support point of view (you need to be worthy of support before you are supported) and the management problem (while the managers "do nothing" they are nonetheless busy managing and communicating). This leads to another issue: SUPPORT. The "support" type problems are: "you know, you cannot spent too much time on this", "you see, we are non-profit, and cannot do certain things, but maybe someone will give a grant or, by the way, how about membership fees...", and the killer one: "what benefits does it bring to us if we support it". Of course, I was trying to do the job I was paid to do, but then, I was trying to preserve at least a status quo on CCL on my "free" time. The priorities were to cope with spam, cracker attacks, security updates, and the failing cheap hardware (in the past few years, CCL was running on donated computers that nobody else wanted to use for anything...). Yes, my parent organizations provided me with a high-speed jack in the wall, and the option to browse the "surplus" pile, but I was afraid to ask for more since I would not be able to answer the "priorities" questions and would not be able to avoid the "support" issue. Only in America they can have a law saying: "Do not ask, do not tell", though on a different topic. The legal question is a killer. First, the computational chemistry is a munition -- it can be used to develop good things and bad things. Software packages that do advanced computational chemistry are subject to the US export controls. Also, some of you remember the case of American Chemical Society journals being forced to reject papers from scientists from certain countries, since they were recipients of Federal support. The Universities are also recipients of Federal grants and cannot support "the enemies of the State". On the other hand, personally, I have mixed feelings when I see someone from the country that wants to destroy "The Great Satan" asking questions about running Gaussian. You can use it to develop high energy content materials or the drugs for malaria. And obviously, they did not get it legally. Apart from the legal issues, I am one of these people who prides himself to be the part of "The Great Satan" nation. At the same time, I do believe that only collaboration can save this world, but as each of us, I face ethical questions that have no good answers. I am so lucky that I do not have to ask myself the questions that were on the mind of Oppenheimer, Fermi, or Heisenberg. And I do not have to answer them as Dr. Abdul Qadeer Khan since I have nothing pertinent to share. There are other legal problems that have no good answers. What if someone posts a trade secret or a copyrighted material on the CCL? And what if CCL is used to slander some legal entity and I am accused of not preventing it? One lawyer told me: "If you are big, they will go after you, since it will justify the hefty legal fees. If you are small, they will screw you up with a single letter to make others fear". For this reason, I try not to involve myself in moderating this list, since my only defense is: "I could not do anything". So I ask you to understand these issues when you post to CCL. One "Cease and Desist Letter", and CCL will be unplugged -- sorry, but I do not have legal foundation behind me and my LLC cannot afford the "malpractice" insurance. The issues facing Computational Chemistry List will not make good headlines, and no Civil Liberties advocate will offer a pro bono service to defend CCL. Nobody cares, and nobody can make a career out of defending CCL. Now... While I work hard not to participate/interfere in CCL discussions, I DO READ CCL MESSAGES. And sometimes I wander how useful CCL still is. I may be biased, but I do understand the question "What about an alternative CCL". In fact, it is probably needed... CCL without moderation is often too chatty and off-topic for busy professionals on the list. If they conclude that CCL is a waste of their time, they will unsubscribe. I provided you with an experimental tool for filtering CCL messages, hoping that some experimental experience can be collected this way. This would allow more intuitive interface for tailoring the content of a busy list. For example: for those who want to get messages dealing only dealing Gaussian, the entries: Regular Expression Scope Score /gaussian|g94|g98|g03/i header+body 10.0 /./ header+body -5.0 would throw away all messages that do not have "Gaussian", "G94", "G98", or "G03" in them. Similarly, you can throw away all mail from Labanowski as: Regular Expression Scope Score /labanowski/i header+body -1.0 This tool is actually not used beside a couple people, and I do understand why... It is not a good tool and too convoluted to use. I could work on other tools to help you cope with the CCL, but this may not be a time well spent. I have been on Internet long enough to know that splitting CCL into topics will only make the matters worse. Good questions are: what topics?, how to deal with cross-posting or posting wrong topics to wrong lists, etc. CCL can be easily changed to an unattended blog. From my biased perspective, we will loose a community by doing this, but maybe we do not have a community any more? And what is the computational chemistry anyhow? {:-)}. Other options that I hinted in the past would require research and experimenting. That means my time. And as most of you, I need to put food on the table, The profession of being a scientist evolves quickly as does the academic world. The Universities of today, provided with the ability to retain intellectual property rights to research done from federal grants have to compete like any commercial enterprise (check below and the links): http://www.utwatch.org/corporations/ Only typical teaching colleges retain the "learn and teach" attitude though most of them are forced to jump on the "Research University" bandwagon to stay alive since costs are skyrocketing and support is dwindling. Unfortunately, "teach" means "teach a lot" and there is little time left for "learning" part. And "learning" is done only when you can buy yourself from "teaching". And you can buy yourself only if you "bring money". Obviously, the popular perception is that not much "science" can be done with "pencil and pen", or with simple test tubes. The toys became very expensive and the number of them defines the "infrastructure" and hence your prestige and ability to deliver on Research and Development contracts with government, corporate world or foundations that will give money when they can expect "high-impact". Universities that cannot advertise its facilities (say, a Gigahertz NMR or an Atomic Force Microscopes) cannot provide a "leading edge education" and will not attract good students, postdocs and faculty. Yet, the graduate students and postdocs from India, China, and other nations "where they still teach basics" rather than "skills required to be successful in the modern society" form the core "science workers" at American Academia and corporate research departments. Smart American kids prefer MBA, Law or MedSchool. And those who are lucky enough to follow their "call" will not usually work in their profession after obtaining, the supposedly useless "classical education". Then comes a problem that many of you have. What can you tell the bright kid who wants to be a scientist? That they will be evaluated on the basis of the amount of overhead they bring as faculty and their prolific writing skills? Of course, the brightest ones will have money, fame, and exciting scientific careers and freedom to choose. But should one take such enormous risks that do not even guarantee that you will do things that you love for the meager pay? Actually, some start to look at science as a hobby to be done after hours. Going into "science" can no longer be justified by the "noble call" only. Actually, you can be run over with a heavy roller if you are more "noble" than "pragmatic". The society does not need the "intellectuals" and does not want to be heavily taxed for supporting those who do some useless strange things. At the same time, the US faces a real problem of maintaining its "nuke" capabilities since it requires scientists that can get a security clearance. And the "aliens" cannot get it. And when the CIA needs people to listen/translate foreign languages and understand the customs and cultural background, they have a problem of finding suitable people in "language arts". If we had them in numbers, what else could they do? What would be their "marketable skills" a few years ago before we could justify the need for spying on anyone? Table waiting? Custodian Engineers? Few years ago we did not need people since computers were getting "smarter" and faster. And mathematicians? Now we know that we need them for fast pattern, signal, and similarity recognition/analysis, forecasting the "put" options, and cracking the cyphers. But how many math PhDs you needed to teach fractions at the elementary schools when things are normal and we do not have to chase bad guys... (Things will not be normal for a long time, so do not worry...). OK... I unloaded my gallstones... So what about CCL? So, at the beginning of this year, I decided that having the CCL supported by academic organization is simply more trouble than a benefit. At the same time, running it is a substantial cost and takes time. I decided to move it to my basement and run it as a stand-alone, independent, etc. Initially I considered to have it classified as a non-profit, educational charity. But after reading about conflict of interest, classifications of "unrelated income", and reporting requirements, I decided to run it as a for-profit organization. The simple issue is that I do not have time to do the red tape, and since CCL is not a membership organization, the "related non-profit income" does not exist. Having it as a membership organization is not an option. That much I know. From past experience and history I know too well that I cannot count of corporate support. I am a niche organization. Computational chemistry is not seen as something easily converted to some "boom" technology. I am not "nano-something", I am not "gene-something", I am not "future-materials-something" and I am also not a "something- communication-for-the-future". Things sell... Ideas and concepts do not. It is still a "big-science" rather than consumer electronics or "cure-the-bird-flu" something. So you guys at the corporations cannot offer me much support in exchange for "great corporate image" and "we are not only for paying dividends and management salaries, but we will save the world, make your life longer and better, and your TV picture clear and bigger". The "being a good corporate citizen" does not work either for international list dealing with a strange topic for the average customer. On top of this, I had to resign my academic position for family reasons. I am blessed with the fact that my wife has a sensible job, and I have a few months to decide what to do next. Yes, I would like to run CCL in the future, provided that it is useful and can justify my time spent on it. It has a great potential since it is in operation for so long, and Google knows about it. I wanted to see if income from job advertising, banner advertising, conference and workshop advertising (that do work, since CCL links are placed on Google fast and get good priority) and sales of DVDs will cover not only the bills that CCL generates, but also pay for a substantial amount of my own time. Oh well, they do not. I will introduce few more options, but the issue is well summarized by the "law of diminishing returns". The average number of jobs advertised per month dropped around 2.5 times from the time when it was free. The hardest hit sector is in academia, though we all know that prospective candidates for postdocs or PhD studentships do not find your ads in C & E News or a Chronicle. From the feedback I am getting the CCL Job list works well, but there are other FREE job lists, and it is hard to find a justification (administrative or personal) for paying for postdoc advertising. The other forms of advertising do not contribute significantly either, though my experience is that banners on CCL do bring people to your web site, and conferences listed on CCL page get noticed. The good news is that some of you DO SUPPORT CCL and do believe that the services that CCL offers are worth the money. The CCL now pays its bills for hardware, connectivity, disposables, etc. I want to really thank all of you who found it worthwhile to use CCL services. YOU KEPT THE CCL RUNNING for all of us. You paid for hardware that CCL is now using, for supplies, for Internet charges, and for electricity and cooling. Thanks to you, I can sincerely say that I do not have a dilemma when I now pay these utilities, since I am not taking the money away from my family. You also make me indebted an committed to run CCL, since someone else also cares. Yes, CCL is a labor of love for me, but I also try to ask myself often if I am the only one left who believes that it makes sense to do the chores. And you keep me going. I only wish that I could commit myself to spend more time on CCL, but obviously it does not seem to be realistic. I will introduce a way for CCL supporters to tell the others who you are, and I already have a prototype for a page of "Supporting Members" that I will announce soon after I give it more testing and thought. Beside, I DO HOPE that the CCL services that you purchased were worth it. If I did not believe this, I would not advertize them... Thank you again for your support, lively discussions and sorting through the maze of messages and unorganized site. I will try to sustain CCL as much as I can. Maybe in the future, e.g., if I take an early retirement, in a few years, I can make this a much better resource and devote more time than I can give to CCL now (on average 4 hours a day -- "The little things occupy a large share of our lives, as Anatol France once said). It also helps that I automatized a lot of chores on the CCL and hope to reduce the manual work even more. At the same time, the spam level is constantly growing, the security attacks become more vicious, and the legal issues with constantly growing body of law require incomparably more attention than only a few years ago. But I am an optimist that I can keep up with it and keep CCL running... Thanks again, for reading if you got that far. Jan Labanowski The CCL Unmoderator. From owner-chemistry@ccl.net Wed Dec 21 16:07:01 2005 From: "RMC Biosciences, Inc. rcasey]-[rmcbiosciences.com" To: CCL Subject: CCL: HTS Screen Summary Message-Id: <-30381-051221160444-24431-EbHVymuh/WfVbFbFLvF5IQ_._server.ccl.net> X-Original-From: "RMC Biosciences, Inc." Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 13:10:02 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Sent to CCL by: "RMC Biosciences, Inc." [rcasey^-^rmcbiosciences.com] Kim, Although I'm not exactly sure what you're looking for, you might also check out the ZINC virtual screening library (http://blaster.docking.org/zinc/). It's free. --------------------------------------------- Richard Casey, PhD Ph: 970-224-0456 Fax: 970-224-2831 Email: rcasey]-[rmcbiosciences.com ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kim Branson kim.branson{}gmail.com" To: "Casey, Richard " Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 12:13 PM Subject: CCL: HTS Screen Summary > Sent to CCL by: Kim Branson [kim.branson[-]gmail.com] > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi all > > Here is a summary of the responses i have received for public HTS data > resources.: > Based on the responses I have received, and the data i have found, > there are very few public sources of information > > The McMasters HTS library has 2 sets, SARS protease, and the DHFR set. > > The harvard screening facility have data for numerous screens, some > which have known xray structures associated with them. Accessing the > structures of the compounds used in the screen is difficult. One cannot > simply download the structures, (unless you write a automated web > request program.. ) > > The set of CDK-2 ligands in http://dx.doi.org/10.1021/jm020472j > > responses below. > > cheers > Kim > > ________________________________________________________________________ > _______ > > > Responses Below: > > Sent to CCL by: "Michael K. Gilson" > BindingDB now allows SDfile downloads of compounds and inhibition > constants for a given target. I'm not sure if this is exactly what you > are after, though, since these are not HTS sets. On the other hand, some > targets have hundreds of compounds. > > You might also want to look at what is available now at PubChem. > > Regards, > Mike > > Sent to CCL by: Greg Landrum > Though it's not exactly HTS data, a large quantity of data about CDK2 > ligands is available in the supplementary material associated with this > paper: > Bradley, E. K.; Miller, J. L.; Saiah, E.; Grootenhuis, P. D. Informative > library design as an efficient strategy to identify and optimize leads: > application to cyclin-dependent kinase 2 antagonists. J Med Chem 2003, > 46, 4360-4364. > http://dx.doi.org/10.1021/jm020472j > > The authors screened ~16K compounds for CDK2 activity and report all the > results. > > Sent to CCL by: "Wolf-D. Ihlenfeldt" [wdi%a%xemistry.com] > > I suggest you look at PubChem (pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov). > W. D. Ihlenfeldt > Xemistry GmbH > wdi..xemistry.com > > Kim, > You also might want to check the HTS group at McMaster University in > Hamilton. They sponsored a competition on HTS data mining this past > year. The web site can be found at > http://hts.mcmaster.ca/HTSDataMiningCompetition.htm . The data set was > entirely based on DHFR inhibition, but it included several novel > inhibitors and the results of the screens they used as the basis of the > competition are now in the literature. Hopefully this will be a regular > sort of contest from various research groups and we will be able to get > a "bake-off" of methods in virtual screening and HTS analysis going on a > regular basis. > > Andy > > > > > > Dr Kim Branson > Peter Doherty Fellow > Protein Structure and Function > St Vincents Institute for Medical Research > 41 Victoria Parade, Fitzroy > Victoria 3065, Australia. > Phone: +613 9288 2480 > Fax: +613 94162 676 > kbranson(0)svi.edu.au > kim.branson(0)gmail.com > www.svi.edu.au > > "Reminds me of the time I went to Africa, someone forgot the corkscrew > and we had to live on food and water for days." > W.C. Fields > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin) > > iD8DBQFDqDFR3QNu8KNs0LgRApm0AKCFqopdsUP9kYnlflzKm/8ysRfxwgCfdspJ > nUhOV+3HDgErYOeNmNmcq7E= > =sHKb > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----> > > From owner-chemistry@ccl.net Wed Dec 21 16:42:00 2005 From: "Spencer Ericksen spencer_ericksen-.-hotmail.com" To: CCL Subject: CCL: autodock Message-Id: <-30382-051221133847-27842-m5i22Xh2GVhHmH1z/OPtnQ++server.ccl.net> X-Original-From: "Spencer Ericksen" Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 17:51:37 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Sent to CCL by: "Spencer Ericksen" [spencer_ericksen . hotmail.com] I have used an older version of AutoDock but I think that most docking programs require that you either: (1) initially place the ligand very near the likely site of binding or (2) that you specificy a particular volume or search region encompassing the active site. Even if the active site or ligand are in inappropriate conformations, they will usually still 'stick' nonspecifically to one another due to basic attractive forces between small molecules and proteins--i.e., the program should find at least one ligand:protein configuration with some favorable interaction energy (interaction E < 0) that is less than the molecules distantly separated (interaction E = 0). Make sure that your search region is specified correctly and appropriately. You should see in the manual how this smaller search region is specified. Good luck, spence Spencer S. Ericksen, Ph.D. 420 W. Wilson St. Apt. 108 Madison, WI 53703 304-685-7660 ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "subha sridhar meenakshisubha _ gmail.com" Reply-To: "CCL Subscribers" To: "Ericksen, Spencer " Subject: CCL: autodock Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 10:10:00 -0500 Received: from server.ccl.net ([66.93.212.15]) by bay0-mc1-f11.bay0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Wed, 21 Dec 2005 07:50:15 -0800 Received: from server.ccl.net (ccl [127.0.0.1])by server.ccl.net (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id jBLFU8jC017524for ; Wed, 21 Dec 2005 10:49:05 -0500 Received: (from root:_:localhost)by server.ccl.net (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id jBLFA0hC006632for spencer_ericksen:_:hotmail.com; Wed, 21 Dec 2005 10:10:00 -0500 X-Message-Info: JGTYoYF78jGhl2VhK5qAHXoSe36CTQ2A1LLd0F0QDgU= X-Original-From: subha sridhar X-Preference-Score: 0 X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,DEAR_SOMETHING autolearn=failed version=3.0.4 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.4 (2005-06-05) on server.ccl.net Return-Path: owner-chemistry:_:ccl.net X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Dec 2005 15:50:15.0978 (UTC) FILETIME=[3C89D0A0:01C60646] Sent to CCL by: subha sridhar [meenakshisubha]|[gmail.com] ------=_Part_14375_18935399.1135163086221 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Dear Sir, We are attempting to dock a known ligand to a receptor (modelled in modeller 8v1) using autodock 3.0. first we docked using an existing pdb complex from which the receptor and the ligand were separated. However while docking the modelled receptor with the same ligand extracted > from pdb , the ligand loaded at a far distance and the resulting docked conformation of the ligand also did not show any binding to the receptor. what could be the possible reason? Thanking you. regards modelling team. meenakshisubha . gmail.com ------=_Part_14375_18935399.1135163086221 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
Dear Sir,
           &nbs= p;  We are attempting to dock a known ligand to a receptor (modelled i= n modeller 8v1) using autodock 3.0. first we docked using an = ; existing pdb complex from which the receptor and the ligand were separate= d.
However while docking the modelled receptor with the same ligand = extracted from pdb , the ligand loaded at a far distance and the resul= ting docked conformation of the ligand also did not show any binding t= o the receptor.
what could be the possible reason?
 
Thanking you.
 
regards
modelling team.
 
------=_Part_14375_18935399.1135163086221--http://www.ccl.net/cgi-bin/ccl/send_ccl_messagehttp://www.ccl.net/chemistry/sub_unsub.shtmlhttp://www.ccl.net/spammers.txt From owner-chemistry@ccl.net Wed Dec 21 17:50:00 2005 From: "Kim Branson kim.branson=-=gmail.com" To: CCL Subject: CCL: HTS Screen Summary Message-Id: <-30383-051221173520-4805-bDab4FX60geQdmXLqsmUfg+/-server.ccl.net> X-Original-From: Kim Branson Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 13:36:43 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v623) Sent to CCL by: Kim Branson [kim.branson%a%gmail.com] -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi, i'm not looking for compounds, but rather data from HTS screens. i.e compounds and activity information for each compound against a target. This is so I can conduct comparison experiments between HTS and virtual screening. Ideally a xray structure of the target should be in the public domain too. this sort of data is naturally a bit rare, but this situation will hopefully change. On 21/12/2005, at 1:07 PM, RMC Biosciences, Inc. rcasey]-[rmcbiosciences.com wrote: > Sent to CCL by: "RMC Biosciences, Inc." [rcasey^-^rmcbiosciences.com] > Kim, > > Although I'm not exactly sure what you're looking for, you might also > check > out the ZINC virtual screening library > (http://blaster.docking.org/zinc/). > It's free. > > --------------------------------------------- > Richard Casey, PhD > > > Ph: 970-224-0456 > > Fax: 970-224-2831 > > Email: rcasey||rmcbiosciences.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Kim Branson kim.branson{}gmail.com" > To: "Casey, Richard " > Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 12:13 PM > Subject: CCL: HTS Screen Summary > > >> Sent to CCL by: Kim Branson [kim.branson[-]gmail.com] >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> Hi all >> >> Here is a summary of the responses i have received for public HTS data >> resources.: >> Based on the responses I have received, and the data i have found, >> there are very few public sources of information >> >> The McMasters HTS library has 2 sets, SARS protease, and the DHFR set. >> >> The harvard screening facility have data for numerous screens, some >> which have known xray structures associated with them. Accessing the >> structures of the compounds used in the screen is difficult. One >> cannot >> simply download the structures, (unless you write a automated web >> request program.. ) >> >> The set of CDK-2 ligands in http://dx.doi.org/10.1021/jm020472j >> >> responses below. >> >> cheers >> Kim >> >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> __ >> _______ >> >> >> Responses Below: >> >> Sent to CCL by: "Michael K. Gilson" >> BindingDB now allows SDfile downloads of compounds and inhibition >> constants for a given target. I'm not sure if this is exactly what you >> are after, though, since these are not HTS sets. On the other hand, >> some >> targets have hundreds of compounds. >> >> You might also want to look at what is available now at PubChem. >> >> Regards, >> Mike >> >> Sent to CCL by: Greg Landrum >> Though it's not exactly HTS data, a large quantity of data about CDK2 >> ligands is available in the supplementary material associated with >> this >> paper: >> Bradley, E. K.; Miller, J. L.; Saiah, E.; Grootenhuis, P. D. >> Informative >> library design as an efficient strategy to identify and optimize >> leads: >> application to cyclin-dependent kinase 2 antagonists. J Med Chem 2003, >> 46, 4360-4364. >> http://dx.doi.org/10.1021/jm020472j >> >> The authors screened ~16K compounds for CDK2 activity and report all >> the >> results. >> >> Sent to CCL by: "Wolf-D. Ihlenfeldt" [wdi%a%xemistry.com] >> >> I suggest you look at PubChem (pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov). >> W. D. Ihlenfeldt >> Xemistry GmbH >> wdi..xemistry.com >> >> Kim, >> You also might want to check the HTS group at McMaster University in >> Hamilton. They sponsored a competition on HTS data mining this past >> year. The web site can be found at >> http://hts.mcmaster.ca/HTSDataMiningCompetition.htm . The data set >> was >> entirely based on DHFR inhibition, but it included several novel >> inhibitors and the results of the screens they used as the basis of >> the >> competition are now in the literature. Hopefully this will be a >> regular >> sort of contest from various research groups and we will be able to >> get >> a "bake-off" of methods in virtual screening and HTS analysis going >> on a >> regular basis. >> >> Andy >> >> >> >> >> >> Dr Kim Branson >> Peter Doherty Fellow >> Protein Structure and Function >> St Vincents Institute for Medical Research >> 41 Victoria Parade, Fitzroy >> Victoria 3065, Australia. >> Phone: +613 9288 2480 >> Fax: +613 94162 676 >> kbranson(0)svi.edu.au >> kim.branson(0)gmail.com >> www.svi.edu.au >> >> "Reminds me of the time I went to Africa, someone forgot the >> corkscrew >> and we had to live on food and water for days." >> W.C. Fields >> >> >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >> Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin) >> >> iD8DBQFDqDFR3QNu8KNs0LgRApm0AKCFqopdsUP9kYnlflzKm/8ysRfxwgCfdspJ >> nUhOV+3HDgErYOeNmNmcq7E= >> =sHKb >> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----> To recover the email address of the author of the message, please > change> > Search Messages: http://www.ccl.net/htdig (login: ccl, Password: > search)> > -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- > +-+ > > > > Dr Kim Branson -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin) iD8DBQFDqcrr3QNu8KNs0LgRAukTAKDnLAYhKyof4/dtjH4STLXHjVvqWwCgx5bH yV0XqfpU6vCXw4WbzC7J7N0= =mNOM -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----