19 =D0=B4=D0=B5=D0=BA=D0=B0=D0=B1=D1=80=D1=8F 2019 =D0=B3=2E 20:= 45:09 GMT+02:00, "Matthias Heger heger=3D-=3Dualberta=2Eca" <owner-chemi= stry : ccl=2Enet> =D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=88=D0=B5=D1=82:


Sent to CCL by: Matthias Heger [heger(a)ualberta=
=2Eca]
Sebastian,

First of all, thank you for that very detailed =
breakdown of what the meritocracy argument really is: A tool to justify the=
 blatant victim shaming that we're seeing in this discussion=2E

You'=
re asking if you are forgetting anything in your list=2E I would actually e=
xpand on your fourth item - not fostering students from certain backgrounds=
 enough - from the perspective of the current issue=2E How girls and women =
are judged in mathematics and science is not just about background, it abso=
lutely is about gender too=2E This can be very clearly demonstrated=2E For =
example, randomized male or female names on otherwise identical resumes lea=
d to drastic differences in how the applicants are rated in terms of compet=
ence and hireability for scientific positions=2E [1] One study found that a=
lready in primary school, girls can perform equally as well or even better =
than boys in math exams, but only if thally as well or even better than boy=
s in math exams, but only if the tests are anonymized - otherwise, there is=
 a distinct bias against them=2E This has obvious and lasting effects on th=
eir academic career choices right from the very start=2E [2]

Gender =
bias among teachers and professors is an open secret=2E Putting the "merito=
cracy" nonsense on top of it is nothing less than adding insult to injury=
=2E It actually reminds me of the whole "pulling yourself up by your bootst=
raps" thing=2E

Best,
Matthias


[1] https://www=2Epnas=2Eorg/content/109/=
41/16474
[2] 



Am 19-Dec=2E-2019 um 12=
:51 a=2Em=2E schrieb Sebastian seb=2Ekozuch*o*gmail=2Ecom:
Sent to CCL by: Sebastian [seb=2Ekozuch=
_-_gmail=2Ecom]

Dear CCLers:

Since the topic of the women "qu=
ota" in comp chem has been already discussed
here before (see the grand =
ICQC affair), I won't talk about it=2E Enough is to say
that I believe t=
hat Jim Kress is wrong=2E


However, I would like to talk about th=
e concept of Meritocracy=2E


TL;DR version: Whoever believes in m=
eritocracy is wrong=2E Horribly wrong=2E Savage
capitalism style of wron=
g=2E "Make America great again" kind of wrong=2E


Long version:
For those that are not familiar with it, there is a concept known in =
economy,
sociology and obviously in sociology of science called the Matt=
hew effect:

"For to every one who has will more be given, and he wil=
l have abundance; but
from him who has not, even what he has will be tak=
en away=2E" (Matthew 25:29)

In simple words: "the rich get richer an=
d the poor get poorer"
(https://en=2Ewikipedia=2Eorg/wiki/Matthew_effect)

=
We know this from the great inequality that has plagued the world in the 21=
st
century, but there are many studies that point to something that we a=
ll know
here: Whoever received scientific prizes in the past will have a=
 huge advantage
to receive more grants, good students and honors in the =
future=2E There are
mathematical models
(https://www=2Eworl=
dscientific=2Ecom/doi/abs/10=2E1142/S0219525918500145) already
point=
ing to the obvious:


Success =3D Talent + Luck

Great Succe=
ss =3D A little more of Talent + A lot of Luck

(Daniel Kahneman, "Th=
inking, Fast and Slow")


Nobody says that the big names in comp c=
hem are not bright=2E But there are tons
of other bright and extremely h=
ard working people that never made it to the big
leagues due to a lack o=
f luck=2E Maybe their PhD project was doomed to fail, but
nobody could k=
now that until someone tries it (a kind of sacrifice to the gods
of scie=
nce)=2E Maybe their postdoc adviser was an a-hole=2E Maybe they were born i=
n
the wrong side of the world=2E And yes, maybe you come from a culture =
where women
are not accepted as scientists since they will "neglect the =
family values"=2E If
by a stroke of luck you had a good head-start, your=
 chances of success in the
future grow exponentially=2E

In other =
words: Meritocracy is a myth=2E A dangerous, unfair myth=2E Both in the
=
economic and in the academic world=2E


We are loosing many talent=
s due to the lack of diversity and the belief that
people reached their =
status only due to their capacity=2E We are making things
worse each tim=
e:

1) We do not check that we give enough slots to women=2E

2=
) We review in a more harshly way a paper if we don't know the authors
<=
br>3) We review in a more harshly way a paper if we don't know how to prono=
unce the
names of the authors (this is a real thing!)

4) We do no=
t put more effort in teaching and forming students coming from less
happ=
y backgrounds or less "academic" cultures

5) We give great honors to=
 selected people just because they got honors in the past

6) We blin=
dly take the H-index as THE measure

7) We applaud the people that pu=
blished more papers than can humanly write (or
even read!)

(what =
am I forgetting in this list?)


Of course that publishing more an=
d getting prizes is great=2E Each time that my
H-index climbs one number=
 I get drunk=2E But we must acknowledge the luck effect,
and especially =
the Matthew effect, in our and others successes=2E

The fair thing is=
 to see beyond that and give more opportunities to the less
lucky ones, =
with the hope they will have the same chances of showing their
capacity=
=2E Sadly we must include women in this bag, even in the 21st century=2EIt's not always easy, but we can start by trying to put more women and/or =
people
whose names we cannot pronounce in the conferences' list of invit=
ed speakers=2E


Meritocracy should be one-way: the one who merits=
, should receive=2E If you
believe that the ones that received did so ex=
clusively because they merit, oh
boy=2E Not only you are unfair, you are=
 unscientific=2E


Thanks for listening to my rant,

Sebasti=
an



On 19/12/2019 0:18, Jim Kress jimkress35_+_gmail=2Ecom wr=
ote:
 Sent to CCL by: "=
Jim Kress" [jimkress35[a]gmail=2Ecom]
 So, they need to ensure they have=
 proper representation of all 26 genders in their program=2E

From the responses I have seen, i=
ncluding the personal attacks by Mr=2E Seifert, it is obvious the concept o=
f meritocracy is dead=2E
 That is unfortunate=2E  It reduce=
s these Workshops to useless displays of virtue signaling and mediocre scie=
nce=2E

 I will not comment further=2E  I'll have to invoke Mark Twai=
n when he said " "Never argue with a pig=2E It just frustrates you and irri=
tates the pig=2E"

 Jim Kress

 -----Original Message-----
<=
blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0=2E8ex; bord=
er-left: 1px solid #8ae234; padding-left: 1ex;">From: owner-chemistry+jimkr=
ess35=3D=3Dgmail=2Ecom{:}ccl=2Enet <owner-chemistry+jimkress35=3D=3Dgmai=
l=2Ecom{:}ccl=2Enet> On Behalf Of Shahar Keinan skeinan : gmail=2Ecom
 Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2019 12:43 PM
 To: Kress, J=
im  <jimkress35{:}gmail=2Ecom>
 Subject: CCL: 8th French-Japanese =
Workshop on Computational Methods in Chemistry


 Sent to CCL by: =
Shahar Keinan [skeinan###gmail=2Ecom] I agree with Kathrin here, it is the =
role of the organizers to make sure that they have a balanced conference=2E=


 And it is the role of the community to call them out when they fai=
l to do so=2E

 Shahar


 On 12/18/19 9:30 AM, zborowsk zbor=
owsk,chemia=2Euj=2Eedu=2Epl wrote:
Sent to CCL by: zborowsk [zborowsk]|[chemia=2Euj=2Eedu=2Epl] W =
dniu
2019-12-18 11:07, Kathrin Helen Hopmann kathrin=2Ehopmann=2E:=2Euit=
=2Eno
napisa=C5=82(a):
 Sent to CCL by: Kathrin Helen Hopmann [kathrin=2Ehopmann=2E=2Euit=2Eno]=
 Dear
 Organizers of the 8th French-Japanese Workshop on Computational Methods in Chemistry,

 I am sorry that I may have miscounted, it =
seems there is 1 female
 speaker among the 19 confirmed invited speakers=
 (perhaps I have
 misinterpreted some of the other name and there are mo=
re?)=2E

 I know it is not easy for conference organizers to ensure a=

 gender-balanced program=2E But we need to talk about this problem
 =
sometimes, so that we can find out how we can improve things=2E

 wit=
h best regards,
 Kathrin Hopmann
 Do not only talk about=
, simply take a part in the conference, then the
 balance will be signif=
icantly improved=2E


 -----Original Message-----
From: Kathrin Helen Hopmann
 Sent: onsdag 18=2E d=
esember 2019 11:27
 To: 'CCL Subscribers' <chemistry^ccl=2Enet> Subject: RE: CCL: 8th French-Japanese Workshop on Computational
 Metho=
ds in Chemistry

 Dear Organizers of the 8th French-Japanese Workshop=
 on Computational
 Methods in Chemistry,

 I counted 19 confirmed =
invited speakers on your website=2E
 Sadly, not a single of these seems =
to be a woman=2E


 with best regards
 Kathrin Hopmann

 =
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-chemistry+kathrin=2Ehopmann=3D=3Duit=2Eno^ccl=2Enet
<=
owner-chemistry+kathrin=2Ehopmann=3D=3Duit=2Eno^ccl=2Enet> On Behalf Of<=
br>Francois Berenger mlists(a)ligand=2Eeu
 Sent: onsdag 18=
=2E desember 2019 06:47
 To: Kathrin Helen Hopmann <kathrin=2Ehopmann=
^uit=2Eno>
 Subject: CCL: 8th French-Japanese Workshop on Computation=
al Methods
 in Chemistry


 Sent to CCL by: "Francois  Berenger=
" [mlists- -ligand=2Eeu]
 Registration for the 8th French-Japanese Works=
hop on Computational
 Methods in Chemistry (FJCMC2020) is open!

 =
Please consider joining us March 19th and 20th 2020 at Kumamoto
 univers=
ity (Japan)=2E

 We will be lucky to have presentations by many prest=
igious speakers:
 http://www=2Echem=2Ekumamoto-u=2Eac=2Ejp/~=
frjp2020/invited-speakers=2Ehtml

 More information can be found =
at:
 http://www=2Echem=2Ekumamoto-u=2Eac=2Ejp/~frjp2020/index=2Ehtml

 The registration page is:
 http://www=2Echem=2Ekumamot=
o-u=2Eac=2Ejp/~frjp2020/registration=2Ehtml

 We are looking forw=
ard to meet you in Kumamoto, The

 organizers=2Ehttp://www=2Eccl=2Ene=
t/cgi-bin/ccl/send_ccl_messagehttp://www=2E
 ccl=2Enet/chemistry/sub_uns=
ub=2Eshtmlhttp://www=2Eccl=2Enet/spammers=2Etxt>>> Conferences: http://server=2Eccl=2Enet/chemistry/announcements/conferences/--
 Krzysztof K=2E Zborowski
 Faculty of Chemistry
 Jagiel=
lonian University in Krakow
 2 Gronostajowa Street
 30-387 Krakow
=
 Poland
 email: zborowsk-#-chemia=2Euj=2Eedu=2EplConferences:
 http:/=
/server=2Eccl=2Enet/chemistry/announcements/conferences/>     >
 --
 Shahar Keinan
 (919)-357-5319http://www=2Eccl=
=2Enet/cgi-bin/ccl/send_ccl_messagehttp://www=2Eccl=2Enet/chemistry/sub_uns=
ub=2Eshtmlhttp://www=2Eccl=2Enet/spammers=2EtxtE-mail to subscribers:CHEMIS=
TRY() ccl=2Enet  or use:>>
 E-mail to administrators:CHEMISTRY-REQ=
UEST() ccl=2Enet  or usehttp://www=2Eccl=2Enet/chemistry/sub_unsub=2Eshtml<=
br>
 Before posting, check wait time at:http://www=2Eccl=2Enet

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ob:http://www=2Eccl=2Enet/jobs  
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