RE: CCL. HYBRIDIZATION NOT "REAL";V. FOCK



I for one have been enjoying the philosophical discussion.
 Perhaps more useful(?) questions to discuss are:
 1. Is hybridization a well-defined concept within quantum theory?  (I
 suspect this is what the original posting "really" meant by
 "real")?
 2. Is hybridization a useful concept in rationalizing or thinking about wave
 functions, or about the properties of molecules?
 --David Shobe
 Süd-Chemie Inc.
 phone (502) 634-7409
 fax     (502) 634-7724
 email  dshobe at.at sud-chemieinc.com
 Any opinions herein are not necessarily representative of Süd-Chemie.
 -----Original Message-----
 From: Isaac B. Bersuker [mailto:bersuker at.at
 ne059.cm.utexas.edu]
 Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2000 12:34 PM
 To: Eric Scerri
 Cc: chemistry at.at ccl.net
 Subject: CCL:CCL. HYBRIDIZATION NOT "REAL";V. FOCK
 I agree with your statement.
 I entered this discussion just to remind people that hybridization may be
 obtained from perturbation theory (mixing of s, p, d,... orbitals under the
 influence of the field of other atoms, bonding), and hence it is not just an
 arbitrary assumption (as it may appear at first sight). It leads to quite
 observable charge redistribution (s type admixture in different situations
 can
 be obtained also from spectroscopic data).
 This simple remark lead some people to global philosophycal deduction like
 "orbitals are not real", "quantum mechanics is not real",
 etc. I believe
 that
 such statements were of some interest 50 to 60 years ago, not now. It is
 well
 known that our knowledge is relative (not absolute) truth, but as a relative
 truth quantum mechanics is excelent with its predictions which are confirmed
 by experimental data.
 Isaac Bersuker
 Eric Scerri wrote:
 >      Quantum Mechanics is a mathematical methodology which best (at this
 > time) reproduces existing knowledge. As such it is an approach that we can
 use
 > to understand our physical universe. While it describes what we perceive
 as
 > reality, it is no more "real" than the theory of phlogiston nor
 are its
 > constructs (i.e orbitals - hybridized or not) any more real than the
 billiard
 > ball representation of atomic structure.
 >
 > While I agree with the jist of this statement I wonder whether you might
 be
 > overstating the case?
 >
 > Phlogiston theory was long ago refuted and is therefore not even candidate
 for a true scientific entity.
 >
 > Not all the entities discussed by quantum mechanics have the same status
 surely?
 > Most people would want to say that electrons and protons are real
 entities.
 >
 > Your statement could be taken to mean that QM is a theory (epistemology)
 and
 > therefore may not give us direct access to real entities (ontology).
 >
 > But there is a problem that we can only get at the micoworld via quantum
 > mechanics so the neat distinction between the world and our description of
 the
 > world is blurred.
 >
 > I wonder whether you also intended the first sentence literally, namely
 that
 > QM makes no true predictions? If so I think this is debateable although it
 is
 > probably true that there are few genuine predictions, in the temporal
 sense,
 > made by QM.
 >
 > To get back to the main issue we can distinguish between atomic orbitals
 > (non real) and electron density (real). Each case can be dealt with
 separately
 > whereas a general statement about quantum mechnics as a whole, as above,
 would
 > suggest that all entities are lacking physical reality which to repeat is
 > going too far.
 >
 > eric scerri
 >
 >      These are all artificial constructs
 > that help us humans find a frame of reference in which we can understand
 the
 > reality in which we are immersed. They have no 'reality' beyond that we
 assign
 > them to enhance our understanding ...
 >
 > Jim Kress
 >
 >
 -------------------------------------------------
 > Dr. Eric Scerri,
 > Department of Chemistry & Biochemistry,
 > Charles E. Young Drive,
 > UCLA,
 > Los Angeles, CA 90095
 > USA
 >
 > E-mail: scerri at.at chem.ucla.edu
 >
 > Editor of "Foundations of Chemistry"
 > http://www.wkap.nl/journalhome.htm/1386-4238
 >
 > Also see,
 > International Society for the Philosophy of Chemistry
 > http://www.georgetown.edu/earleyj/ISPC.html
 --
 Dr. Isaac B. Bersuker
 Institute for Theoretical Chemistry
 Department of Chemistry & Biochemistry
 The University of Texas at Austin
 Austin, TX 78712, USA
 Ph: (512) 471-4671
 Fax: (512) 471-8696
 Email: bersuker at.at eeyore.cm.utexas.edu
 -= This is automatically added to each message by mailing script =-
 CHEMISTRY at.at ccl.net -- To Everybody    |   CHEMISTRY-REQUEST at.at ccl.net
 -- To
 Admins
 MAILSERV at.at ccl.net -- HELP CHEMISTRY or HELP SEARCH
 CHEMISTRY-SEARCH at.at ccl.net -- archive search    |    Gopher: gopher.ccl.net
 70
 Ftp: ftp.ccl.net  |  WWW: http://www.ccl.net/chemistry/   | Jan: jkl at.at ccl.net