From chemistry-request@server.ccl.net Thu Aug 24 14:35:11 2000 Received: from lrz.uni-muenchen.de (root@A7636.pppool.de [213.6.118.54]) by server.ccl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA20232 for ; Thu, 24 Aug 2000 14:34:57 -0400 Received: (from eugene.leitl@localhost) by lrz.uni-muenchen.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA16729; Thu, 24 Aug 2000 08:36:07 -0700 From: Eugene Leitl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14757.16615.358948.899434@lrz.uni-muenchen.de> Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 08:36:07 -0700 (PDT) To: Subject: FYI: Re: Chronicle: on Chem preprint servers X-Mailer: VM 6.71 under 21.1 (patch 4) "Arches" XEmacs Lucid From: "Bachrach, Steven" Sender: CHEMICAL INFORMATION SOURCES DISCUSSION LIST To: CHMINF-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU Subject: Re: Chronicle: on Chem preprint servers Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 08:44:05 -0500 I too mourn the passing of an opportunity to create a grassroots opportunity, but wish to point out a few things. First, NOTHING kept anyone from starting such an effort at any time in the past. In fact, the Chemistry Preprint Server form ChemWeb is NOT the first such effort in chemistry. Way back in 1994 and 1995 (ancient history on the web), a Chemical Physics preprint server was enacted originating from Brown University utilizing the same code as the LANL preprint server. This effort was essentailly a failure as few authors submitted. Second, we will continue to wait for ACS to make any action with regard to preprint servers. At the presidential plenary session at the ACS meeting this past Sunday, Bob Bovenshulte indicated that ACS publications is continuing to examine the idea. This concept has been under evaluation at ACS for 18 months already, so one should not hold one's breath waiting for a final determination. ACS journals generally hold a policy that submission to a preprint server constitutes prior publication and therefore disqualifies the article from publication in an ACS journal. This policy is however determined by the editor of each individual journal and one should petition the editors for clarification of their respective policies. I should note that there is now general policy statement from Elsevier concerning this issue either. Third, there is no question that Chemweb is a subsidiary of Elsevier. However, I question exactly what has been given to the Elsevier monopoly here. When an author places an article into the preprint archive, the author assigns no rights to Chemweb. The author retains the copyright and all rights associated with the article. Elsevier cannot charge for access to the article or reproduce it in any form without the express written consent of the author. Chemweb (or Elsevier if you prefer) acts as the conduit for access. Fairly subtle ad placement is the only source of income for Chemweb for providing this service. (In the interest of full disclosure, I am on the advisory board for the CPS.) Lastly, my conclusion form the plenary session on online preprints was that many people are unaware of what a preprint server is and what its implications really are. Unquestionably, education of the chemical community IS the first priority towards making any serious change to our publication system. I concur with Steve Berry who argued at the plenary session that we should be trying many different experiments, learning along the way, adopting good things and throwing out those that fail. I view the CPS as being one of the necessary experiments and hope that many more experiemnts in publication (not just preprint severvices) will follow in the near future. Steve -- Steven Bachrach ph: (210)999-7379 Department of Chemistry fax: (210)999-7569 Trinity University 715 Stadium Drive San Antonio, TX 78212 steven.bachrach@trinity.edu > -----Original Message----- > From: Eugene Leitl [mailto:eugene.leitl@LRZ.UNI-MUENCHEN.DE] > Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 1:59 AM > To: CHMINF-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU > Subject: Chronicle: on Chem preprint servers > > > Great, the chemical community has wasted another opportunity to create > a grassroot publishing effort, giving up another fortification to the > Elsevier monopoly without even a token fight. > > As to "conventional wisdom says that e-prints are not compatible with > the culture of chemistry" -- I suggest a poll on how many > (noncomputational) chemists even know what an e-preprint server > is. Clearly some PR work is in order. > > Regards, > > Eugene Leitl > > Robert Michaelson writes: > > From today's "Daily Update" in the Chronicle of Higher Education > > http://chronicle.com/free/2000/08/2000082201t.htm > > > > Bob Michaelson > > Northwestern University Library > > rmichael@northwestern.edu > > >